tv Forum Examines U.S. Policy Toward the Middle East CSPAN August 8, 2017 8:01pm-9:02pm EDT
weapons program. the foundation for the defense of democracies. on the top brown administrations crackdown and the potential impact on journalists. be sure to watch washington journal on wednesday morning. join the discussion. now, a debate on the situation in the middle east and the policies of the bush, obama, and from administrations. it includes an author and mr. yousef. you will hear from former obama administration officials and former navy intelligence and counterterrorism officials. this is from the conference held in pasadena, california.
>> hello everybody. i am not getting my microphone working. winky. -- thank you. events every year. i hope i do not have to prove that the middle east is a mess. what we want to look at tonight is how we got here and where we can move forward. thate seeing a problem cannot be contained within the middle east. it is spreading to europe and our own shores. i will start with david world with -- horowitz. david, you have some strong ideas of how we got here. the floor is yours. first, a look at what we are
american forces from iraq. he said we need 20,000 troops. obama had declared to retreat from the middle east. he blamed the united states as a problem. vacuum -- 500,000 people would be alive and 20 million refugees were created because of obama's policies. you have the american allies in egypt. people revolted in 2009, it was absolutely violent because his policy of -- he concluded his
one thing he left out was the iraq war. [applause] with the united states and growth of extremism. i will leave that there and talk about moving forward. donald trump was applauded by his trip to saudi arabia by many people. here is why we should be concerned. said it will fight extremism. on the surface, we should applaud that. they have been the root cause of extremism the. extremism. they are inserting themselves in the sunni jihad division all over the middle east. maybe david or somebody else can explain that to him. we can look at the fact that he went there and announced a big
military aid. the military package had been in the works since long before donald trump took office. packageed that military to insert itself in the civil war in human and help -- in yemen. they furthered that conflict. again, i will give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he does not know that. you are things to look out for as it relates to his engagement in saudi arabia. his first trip is cause for concern. >> you are a kind of counterterrorism expert. it looks like the war in syria is at least turning down a bit.
is limited. fall.is about to this is not over. future.cerned about the i spend a lot of time in iraq myself. one can argue about whether or not the u.s. invaded iraq. most people think it is a bad idea. we think about whether we should have left in 2011. what should be our platform here? we have pushed them out. where should the u.s. be going forward? >> 2010 my microphone on. -- let me turn my microphone on. it is good to hear these various perspectives. i have a very different perspective the most players. i am a war fighter. i am in intelligence war fighter
as well. [applause] you are good. spent 35g said, i years in the middle east. i just returned from seven years of living in the middle east with a family. i speak many dialects of arabic and have been involved in every in 1983.ombat action now that i put my experience into perspective, i have some things to say about that. all the accusations that fly back and forth, all these things do not happen in a vacuum. they are the fifth generation of al qaeda. al qaeda started in 1988.
end of the the afghan insurgency war. it was done in order to stoke the passion of americans to simulation -- civilization. many believe that islam as a body was divided. that i live in the trenches. i have bled with soldiers. i have seen -- [laughter] >> you have to have the goat for the wedding. i shot the gun in the air when it was time for them to get married. there are important things man. putting that into perspective of
the counterterrorism and intelligence of everything that has happened since 9/11, of which i was also a witness, victim, and rescue her. i know what these people are doing. i have been working with them since 1988. nonstop. now my job is to explain it to you. isis is a manifestation of the .nvasion of iraq in 2003 in manifested because the government of iraq kicked up out of iraq. we cannot stay there when they forced us out. they came about through their own passion. america did not do it. except for the fact that we invaded iraq in 2003. the problem is being solved. hands connecticut on one -- everything you see in most all, the bombing is the
dissolving of isis. itself inmanifested 2014, we carried out 30 plus -- 30,000 plus airstrikes, along the iraqi army to go in. there are the ones bleeding on the ground, who defeated isis in their own country. they are going to be the ones fighting for raqqa. we can pat ourselves on the back. u.s. air force and the iraqi army are doing it. they are bringing about the end isis. and another year, that organization will cease to exist inside iraq and syria.
it is open outlook for them. they will not survive. -- okinawa. they will not survive area except for their children. that is the next generation of trouble for us. they had kids. they are living in refugee camps. we carried out in action in this administration were being -- where we cut the funding to the syrian army. we essentially turned syria, everything west of raqqa over to the government of assad and russia. those guys we screwed because we cut the funding, they will start thinking about the united states as a terrorist target in the future. kineticto keep up the warfare.
i take better claim that donald trump is using more of my policies on syria because he told time magazine last year that the but -- last book you read was "defeating isis." need a joint arab coalition to defeat isis. that is just me bragging. it had a picture is -- pictures in the back. [laughter] [applause] months, all of those have been implemented. i know you paid attention to the maps. that being said, the one thing that has been missing for decades, i have written three books about it. of ther the ideology isis and al qaeda. apocalyptic cult.
corrupted them to believe that they are the executor of god's will to bring about the end of times. their greatest allies are those people in this country and in the west who say it is the one hope -- they are not. i know what the 1.6 million muslims want. a 2017 toyota corolla. what they do not need is to have a small fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of a , and had been equated to people who do not carranzae cron, who -- -- to tell you that the guy is a muslim. right
since 9/11 we have been fighting so that the defense of islam. crazyting islam from this cold is the only way we can be defended -- why have i been fighting for these guys my right or left? everyone that is in this grand alliance we're supposed to have our muslim. are they the enemy or our allies? that is what this administration is screwing up. there are making then our enemies. they are facilitating the x -- the next generation of terror. [applause]
>> i want to turn to you. you were trained in stanford and other places. your expertise is in the, of torture in particular. we spent a lot of time in turkey and the border of syria. the syrian war may be ramping up or slowing down. when the complex are over, these people are not suddenly fixed. there are hundreds of thousands of people who are horribly traumatized. what does that mean for a future? how can we handle that part of this? there are millions of refugees throughout the middle east from not been welcomed by the other middle eastern countries. it has been mostly on the west to handle this problem.
what do we do with these people who have been psychically tortured for years and years? we have on our hands in global health crisis with transgenerational implications. we have on our hands a global health crisis with transgenerational implications. public, stranger to the the stories of ptsd and war traumatized veterans returning. the amount of trauma, suffering, torture that many of these pages have experienced -- they are a very resilient population. speaking to what you said earlier, how are they supposed to thrive in resettlement? currently meet the community
needs that they had if we cannot change our narrative? it truly starts with that. there is so much being done that will continue to be undone by that narrative being reinforced. that is most likely the most toxic aspect of what we can do as a community. protective is the factor. that is what got them through the horrors of what they experienced. closer eyes and think for a second. if you had to leave your home, your house is being bombed, your health falls apart. you pick up your children's bodies and you are running, trying to corral the rest of your family. point, we need to change that narrative. there is nothing that we can do in a rehabilitative sense that contract that component. being weaponize.
of induction patterns traffickers and colts are very similar. they prey upon traumatized, vulnerable communities. it is that narrative that reinforces the very thing that we do not want. it strengthens it. if i could just -- talk a lot the women and children who survived. these children, particularly male children will be susceptible to the next generation. how do you deal with that? >> there is a huge issue. i would love to be able to answer that concisely. i am looking from an overarching perspective. protected. they are waiting for years in respect to trying to be resettled. upon resettlement, being in communities where they are not welcome. they have a short amount of time
to meet standards that are required of them in resettlement, paying back their criteriaeeting certain . for them to thrive is to be welcomedd an -- welcomed and integrated. thing that i think we can do as a public, the counter narrative piece. the details, we could sit here all day from the policies to the therapeutic and medical treatments. it is a system. it takes a village to raise a child. it is a systemic approach to rehabilitating any trauma survivor. this --overloaded by erodeed by this narrative.
the bullying of the children. where a child has been radicalized domestically or ofrseas, and immense amount bullying has been present in their profile. it is just that. i can give you this complex, drawnout argument or i can -- to yourumanity humanity and compassion. that is what i represent. the humanitarian piece. that example that i can give you. that is where we need to begin. none of it can thrive without that component. >> it is hard to keep that human component in mind when you're looking at figures of 100,000. -- 400,000. you are on the security council under president obama. usually -- you took a huge bet.
the bet was if we drop the sanctions, somehow iran would normalize. would become a respectable and trusted citizen of the world. two years into that deal now. how do you think the bet is paying off? >> thank you for having me. i approach these conversations with a lot of humility because i do not think i am qualified, but i will try. we try to get them to help me learn. bit not think obama made a -- but that iran would make -- become a good actor. we could use an unrelenting series of sanctions to pressure iran into a diplomatic solution that took us from an incident where obama took office, there were concerns that iran was
weeks or months away from a breakout scenario or they could achieve a nuclear weapon. during the first year of the administration, we disclosed the fact that they had a covert facility used to enrich uranium. obama saw this as a threat to israel, to many of our allies in the region and in a testable -- not acceptable scenario for the united states. to get, we did not have to that point. we were able to cut this deal internationally. an international organization came in and inspect things. facilities and it is
working. the way we know it is working is that the trump administration have to reassert that program every 90 days with congress. the intelligence community knows it is the right thing to do. --ould just oppose north korea is a country where we have had no access or diplomatic overtures, no progress in any way. we know they are working on a miniaturized warhead. they launched an icbm two days ago that could apparently fly far enough to hit los angeles, pasadena. that is an and or mostly dangerous -- an enormously dangerous scenario for us.
we have allies like japan and south korea. to bet he made should try resolve our problems to dramatically has paid off in iran. i think there is hope in the long-term that that can lead to additional normalization of the relationship. let's be clear. separate fromre saudi arabia. there are saudi extremist groups. guys ornot exactly good say a lot of things rhetorically that are threatening to israeli allies. i think what we are lacking in the u.s. is a couple things. one is patience. one is the ability to view world events through a prism other
than the prism of washington or the united states. it is dangerous when we talk about the rise of isis or al qaeda as something that was solely manifested through i think that ignores the fact that people in countries who are making their own decisions and self-determination is an important thing for them. thank you. [applause] tonighty on this panel has accomplished things in their own ways. [indiscernible] [applause] why.me tell you not only a is he the jon stewart of egypt, which is an achievement, not only is he a cardiac surgeon, it's true, but
he was almost late for the panel today because he was coming from the hospital where his wife just gave birth to his son. [applause] >> most middle eastern or czar late unless they are making -- are middle easterners late unless they are making bombs to than they are on time. i am like another middle easterner who enjoys being [indiscernible] by every single administration. [laughter] off is the pisses me hypocrisy. like you said an incredible point about the ideology.
in 1988, it came from somewhere else and from your biggest ally in the middle east, from saudi arabia. when king abdullah died last year, every single american in office, future official, past official, just hurried to his funeral. [indiscernible] terrorist twor a days later. i don't understand what the hell he is doing. about syriak here but totally ignore human. yemen.lly ignore it is 2017, people, and there is cholera in yemen because seti is bombing the shit out of this country with the blessing or
while the administration is yelling on because it's fine. they are our allies. you are the biggest ally with them because they give you oil. i find that critical. [applause] i want to expand the problem is little bit. we speak about islam this and a slam that. it's not about -- and islam that. religion.about it is not a battle to restore islam. it is the battle to restore expression. the military regime is not secular. these are dictatorships who also use religion. [indiscernible] in sudan, when the dictatorship was not going for him anymore, he announced sharia in 1981.
in 1980, actually, when he wanted to have unlimited times for election, he announced sharia. in pakistan, 1981, he announced sharia. there are people who are fighting for a secular view for islam, people who are fighting this extreme interpretation of islam. and you know who is putting them in jail? not the ayatollah or people embark. burqa.- or people in a it is the military secular regime. the west administration time and time again, because each president comes here for four years, two-and-a-half years in, he started three campaigning. donald trump started campaigning after the first week. [laughter]
nobody wants to get his hands dirty and it is just the status quo. who will keep it safe for us, keep it stable? on and on and on. if you want a stable middle east, it is a secular, free at least. [indiscernible] will just come along. that's it. [applause] david, i know what tommy's views were. think, quickly what you where the iran deal is going. andbama who ran proselytized on america pulling out of iraq.
[indiscernible] iraq.da was defeated in the united states had 20,000 troops there. all hundred thousand, mostly christians and [indiscernible] would be alive today. [indiscernible] very knowledgeable. beginning with an apocalyptic cult. read al jazeera polls and surveys in the arab world,, you find that somewhere between 20% and 40% of muslims supported osama bin laden against the west. that's between 300 million and 600 million people. it is a much bigger problem than
malcolm suggests. you asked me a question. >> the iran deal -- question. >> the iran deal. > iranian regime has killed more americans than anywhere in the world. in the middle of negotiations -- by the way [indiscernible] in the middle of negotiations with iran, their spiritual chanted death to america. they are chanting death to israel all the time. the idea that obama would build his whole middle east policy -- and of course, they had a path to a nuclear weapon in their
isolated. it was listed with no quid pro quo. iran is responsible -- it took , i am no big fan of the saudis, but that is the situation there. the duties are supported by iran. >> if they had done nothing, they would have gotten a nuclear bomb. was think obama [indiscernible] that america was the problem. he made it very clear that we were not going to put troops on the ground. we would not exert influence, except for when it came to overthrowing american allies, like egypt. [laughter]
by the way, egypt supported the muslim brotherhood, which is the fountain of the jihad against the west. the muslim brotherhood. it is where al qaeda, where osama bin laden learned his jihadism. it spawned hamas. isis is a monster, an apocalyptic cult. it calls for the extermination of the jews. i have always said that the majority of muslims are peaceloving people. p thatslamophobia craop happened to be invented by the muslim brotherhood to silence critics. there is a big problem. i can go on about it.
when i read the numbers, how many people were killed in the iraq war? like half a million? i don't know. maybe a million because of detentions. a lot of people were killed because of the american intervention in iraq. on the nemesis of the muslim brotherhood in egypt. but i can tell you this lie was created in our own media, picked up by alex jones, and then returned to media. [applause] although that about obama becoming -- being the cofounder of isis extended and we are happy to announce that we started the cradle of civilization.
no, we started the cradle of the end of civilization. [laughter] because people are chanting death to america, you know, you know who else chance of that? that?nts pakistan. i really want to come here and say, all right, guys, do you want to just go and intervene? i am living in this country now and i don't want to look for another billion dollars of military spinach or -- military expenditure. screw the people back there. i don't care. but how much longer do you want to go in? do you want to invade iran? i don't understand.
it didn't work before. it didn't work in vietnam. it didn't work in afghanistan. it didn't work in iraq. it doesn't work, invading other people's country. [applause] later, oh,ght years obama created a vacuum. that is ignoring the problem. i'm sorry. >> we will take questions from this microphone here. malcolm coming ago one minute. off, we have a saying in the military when we run into people who do not know what they are talking about. [indiscernible] civilians. [laughter]
think before you talk, read before you think. from. where the idea came i survived suicide bombings. i read the statistics. iran is not the number one killer. it is the muslims we invaded who were in iraq. they fought us for 11 years. the government of iraq told us to leave. rhetoric, you cannot your way through history and back. [applause] we have a thing called [indiscernible] it's called intelligence.
go frickin' read it. >> i would like to respond to the personal insults here. [laughter] >> in one minute. >> first of all, the problem here is the fact of this panel is ridiculous. he has a point. let him speak. >> you don't ridicule one person. look, the reason we didn't have iraq was0 troops in because obama didn't want them there. that's the reason. al qaeda was defeated in a wreck. >> -- in iraq. >> they were not. i was on the ground. we left that active. do not bring that up.
it's wrong. i was there, too. >> hello, everybody. [laughter] i am a coptic orthodox christian from egypt. i'm sure you all heard about the recent bombings, almost monthly, in the churches in egypt and across the middle east. does the panel believe that the hatred of christianity and judaism in the middle east contributes to the mess in the middle east? against christians and judaism in the middle east. >> there is hate against other muslims, too. people who commit acts of violence against and -- against
christians would not think twice before they commit an act of bounce against sick of people, against other muslims. and there is a lot of people -- against secular people, against other muslims. there is a lot of people. it is perfect because you don't have freedom of speech over there. there is a lot a hate against christians and shia. [indiscernible] one they came out two weeks ago and he said we need to take a break from cursing the christians and the jews in order to curse the shia. [laughter] to focus on al
ah to hate to the shia. it was nurtured over years. hate about westborough baptist church. think about that. >> thank you. so, last month in june, said theykurdistan were going to referendum on independence. how thisour opinion on would add another independent nation or a whole other issue with a nation with significant populations living in three other countries opposing ideologies, especially with leaders in the west who support the iraqi kurds? >> they had the referendum in
september? >> yes. spokesperson, we always said [indiscernible] that was probably pretty naive and did not acknowledgment was happening on the ground. this goes back to something that a lot of people have mentioned on this panel. we have a certain belief system in the united states, even people engaged in the national security community, about how government should be and how governing should be, that it should be centralized, because that is how it is in the united states. but in reality, that is not the way it is in many countries in the middle east. and now we don't have much time, we can go to post world war i on this particular issue. there is an inevitability in it. if you go back to what joe biden was suggesting, a three partitioned iraq. people thought he was nuts.
as an average person, i think it could be for the best, and could be even smart for them to be their own. obviously, it has been building for quite some time. >> thank you. loaded., my name is my father -- my name is logan. my father served 24 years in the united states during core. -- the united states marine corps. toquestion is in regard trump's proposed muslim ban. there is a few things i am kind of confused about the proposal. the logistics pieces involved. it doesn't have all of them. i believe it would be counterproductive because it
only has a few muslim majority nations. you couldn't be able to see if somebody from yemen or iran flew to france and they flew to the net it states. theel it could keep peaceful muslims out of the united states. it is not solving the problem, is my opinion. do you see the united states it a -- in a lockdown from all travel, fix losing business and federal travel? i'm talking about private travel. is that realistic? what can be done to keep the home and safe basically? >> [indiscernible] ok? we can't stop the war.
we can't keep everybody away from this nation. when you start off by saying something like the word muslim ban, that's like saying that the constitution means nothing. every person in this room, unless you are a native american or an f american -- on african-american, because we were a hostages, you are all immigrants in this nation. there were periods when other people didn't want you in here. the great syrian migration is not the 10,000 people who are coming here now. it was in the 1980's when there were hundreds of thousands of them. these are things we need to understand. we can choose to compromise everything america stands for and everything i have defended you for or we can find some way that we take the word muslim and out -- muslim ban out. terrorism band, ok.
fine up untiljust donald trump started opening his mouth. [applause] >> thank you. since this is a middle east panel, i would like to ask a civil question. >> there are no simple questions. peace -- alestinian [indiscernible] [laughter] >> what is the possibility of there being a by state solution? -stateat -- a two solution? and what has to happen? >> i was working in the state department with john kerry when we went at the middle east peace process last time, prior to jared kushner's after it
currently ongoing. it is like the golden ring that every american president and every secretary of state wants. what we discover through the process, which i believe people who work on these issues and experts in the region would have already known, is that it is tough to say a safe solution while netanyahu is. prime minister -- is prime minister. here's the reason why. he is someone who is concerned about his own politics. there are people like that in the united states as well. he is in a sense the mayor of jerusalem. he is not willing to make tough choices and to put his political future on the line. it is not that the other side is faultless either. there is a problem with leadership on the palestinian side as well. that is a core problem. every american problem. -- american president will chase this.
whether the united states should be the arbiter is a larger question as well. >> we cannot negotiate these are people who want to kill you. gaza,n the west bank and a terrorist regime that wants to destroy israel, [indiscernible] completely invented people. >> so that people on the gaza strip are all terrorists? of palestinians vote for two terrorist parties. >> did jesus visit those imaginary people? [laughter] the conflict is a 70-year undovoked aggression to the un's solution.
border. back to 1947 that is the first un's solution. terrific. aggression. israel did not occupy an inch of arab territory. [indiscernible] what about [indiscernible] defeated hither because of his aggressions [indiscernible] >> gentlemen, we are not going to solve the israeli-palestinian problem here. let's move on. thank you, ma'am. thank you for your question. gentlemen in the red hat. >> there is a reason they do it
at camp david. [laughter] >> thank you for coming. i studied international law. i wanted to ask about this narrative that some of you on the panel are posing, that there is a microscopic minority of some cultish very to this long. variety oftish islam. that goes against what i've been learning. 2013 published results showed percentre was a native -- and 80% who agreed [indiscernible] then't understand why are partying with -- parting
with islam when islam does not support minorities. research wassame happening in the 1950's and 1960's. i agree with you. there is a disease, a virus in the interpretation of islam. theou look at the bible and old testament, there is a [indiscernible] christian communities have evolved beyond scripture and they had their own of interpretation of that. same. take the search and -- if you take the same pew research
[indiscernible] muslim women are more likely to have a masters degree and to work in professions than men. i agree with you. think, and i'm sorry to offend everybody, but each has problems, to. -- too. are christians in egypt who are living under the eyes and the nose of a military leadership. their supervision of the region is corrupt. my problem is you have to come back [indiscernible] it's a fight for freedom of expression more than anything.
it has to come from within, which is hindered by the same dictatorship that is supported by the administration. [applause] >> thank you. thank you to everyone else on the panel. thank you all. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] tomorrow night in primetime, a panel of judges, journalists and former law clerks review this past supreme court term, neilding the impact of
gorsuch. wednesday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. here is a preview. >> i personally have no doubt that if justice kennedy is president trump, there will be fireworks to roe versus wade. maybe we can have a discussion about john roberts to read i don't think anybody has any doubt about thomas or alito. roberts entiren history, as a judge on the d.c. circuit, that makes one think he might be a vote to reaffirm roe versus wade.
i don't think the president is going to matter to them -- precedent is going to matter to them. >> a number of congressional town holes incing their districts. that was apparent monday as the republican congressman heard from his harshest critics. over the course of the hour-long town hall, he was on the defensive as constituents food and asked for his resignation. one man said, quote, may you guy in pink every of article goes on, representative mark meadows, who played a key role reahe replace and